Greetings, Admirals! You’re listening to EPISODE 237 OF PRIORITY ONE PODCAST, the premier Star Trek Online podcast! This episode was recorded on Thursday, August 27th, 2015 and made available for download or streaming on Monday, August 31st, 2015 at PriorityOnePodcast.com!
We have a very special guest host this week. Some of you may recognise his voice…he’s a former host of Priority One who’s come back to see his old stomping grounds, as it were. Please join us in extending a very warm welcome back to Mark!
This week, we’re continuing our Star Trek Las Vegas coverage with an interview we recorded with the team from Roddenberry.com. In Star Trek Online news, we’re looking over this week’s patch notes and talking about the state of PvP.
And as always, before we wrap things up, we’ll open Hailing Frequencies for your incoming messages.
TOPICS DISCUSSED
This week’s Community Question:
- What sort of PvP would you be looking for in Star Trek Online, whether you already PvP, have given it up, or have yet to try it?
Let us know YOUR thoughts on this week’s episode by commenting below!
Finally, a heartfelt thanks to Geek Nation Tours, who helped us bring you on-site coverage of the 2015 Star Trek Las Vegas Convention from our own table at the convention hall! If you missed it this year, check out their website to find out how you can make next year’s trip to the convention the most memorable experience ever!
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Elio is a Northern New Jersey Cuban-American and graduate of Kean University, having earned his Bachelor of Arts in Theatre Performance in 2011. He has performed in internationally renowned performance halls such as Avery Fisher Hall with the New York Philharmonic, as a member of the Westminster Symphonic Choir, and in Beijing, China as a representative for Kean University. Since 2012, he has had the wonderful opportunity to Executive Produce Priority One – the premiere Star Trek Online podcast. Whether recruiting, managing the global team of talented volunteers, arranging interviews with special guests, editing, web-development, finding sponsors, managing crowd funding, or writing content for the podcast, Elio has a hand in it all. A long-time Trekkie, Elio has been watching the series since he was a child and sneaking in late night, back-to-back, episodes of TNG reruns. He finally embraced the Trekdom in college and spent many hours catching up on the entire multiverse…. instead of studying.
Greetings, Admirals! You’re listening to EPISODE 236 OF PRIORITY ONE PODCAST, the premier Star Trek Online podcast! This episode was recorded on Thursday, August 19th, 2015 and made available for […]
GavinRuneblade on 2015-10-29
I’ve played PvP in many games. I think that MMORPGs need to just give up and remove PvP forever and never bring it back. Not one does half as good a job as dedicated PvP games (Guild Wars, League of Legends, StarCraft, CounterStrike, Quake, etc).
In order to “fix” PvP they have to use the core mechanic from PvP-based games: When the match starts all players have zero gear and equal stats/levels/etc. All the gear and stat increases you get are acquired during the match and go away at the end of it.
This is how Quake, Unreal, and StarCraft did it two decades ago; it’s how the Moba’s and similar PvP games do it today. It works. Everything else is massivley exploitable. And I say this as someone with a heavily enchanted fishing cap etc on level 10 & 20 PvP World of Warcraft characters from pre-Outlands days. There are ALWAYS ways to ruin a bracket system if you let me bring my own twinked gear to the match.
Without this change, no MMORPG will ever have a truly healthy PvP environment. I’m glad for the PvP people we have here in STO, I know several and they are helpful people who greatly increased my understanding of game mechanics and tactics. But I just don’t see how Cryptic can ever make the PvP side work without utterly divorcing it from PvE progression.
I also have a completely “communist” view of rewards that is anethma to all things competitive: If you won a PvP match you just proved you don’t need better gear. No rewards for competition should ever include power gains. This includes credits/dilithium/zen which can all be used to buy power. Losers need those things so they can compete better next time. The winner should only be getting cosmetic or quality of life rewards. Otherwise the longer the system goes the more unfair it becomes. You have to win to get the gear you need to win. This becomes impossible. Back in WoW it was handled for a few years by the top PvP guilds trading wins so that their players all had a chance to get the best gear. Anyone who wasn’t in those guilds never had a chance.
GavinRuneblade on 2019-01-30
I’ve played PvP in many games. I think that MMORPGs need to just give up and remove PvP forever and never bring it back. Not one does half as good a job as dedicated PvP games (Guild Wars, League of Legends, StarCraft, CounterStrike, Quake, etc).
In order to “fix” PvP they have to use the core mechanic from PvP-based games: When the match starts all players have zero gear and equal stats/levels/etc. All the gear and stat increases you get are acquired during the match and go away at the end of it.
This is how Quake, Unreal, and StarCraft did it two decades ago; it’s how the Moba’s and similar PvP games do it today. It works. Everything else is massivley exploitable. And I say this as someone with a heavily enchanted fishing cap etc on level 10 & 20 PvP World of Warcraft characters from pre-Outlands days. There are ALWAYS ways to ruin a bracket system if you let me bring my own twinked gear to the match.
Without this change, no MMORPG will ever have a truly healthy PvP environment. I’m glad for the PvP people we have here in STO, I know several and they are helpful people who greatly increased my understanding of game mechanics and tactics. But I just don’t see how Cryptic can ever make the PvP side work without utterly divorcing it from PvE progression.
I also have a completely “communist” view of rewards that is anethma to all things competitive: If you won a PvP match you just proved you don’t need better gear. No rewards for competition should ever include power gains. This includes credits/dilithium/zen which can all be used to buy power. Losers need those things so they can compete better next time. The winner should only be getting cosmetic or quality of life rewards. Otherwise the longer the system goes the more unfair it becomes. You have to win to get the gear you need to win. This becomes impossible. Back in WoW it was handled for a few years by the top PvP guilds trading wins so that their players all had a chance to get the best gear. Anyone who wasn’t in those guilds never had a chance.
@LleutenantDan on 2015-09-11
I tried PVP over a year ago once, and was overwhelmed by the OP builds people were using. I think they need to find a way to structure PVP. For example: The game “Star Trek: Legacy” had a solid PVP system. You were given a number of command points so that you would never see a Constitution duking it out with a sovereign or a defiant. I feel they should make class-battles and gear limitations, so for example a tier 2 ship battle, an engineer-only match, a non-fleet gear match, etc. Fleets do this kind of thing informally, but it would be nice to have a match setup screen where you could accomplish the same thing.
They could even make Normal, Advanced and Elite PVP queues with a DPS cap (5k, 15k, 50k), so any damage done beyond that point would be ignored. It would level the playing field for each tier of players.
I also agree with StarChaser that Conquest and objective game modes would be ideal, but I realize there is much more the dev’s have to do to make that happen.
@LleutenantDan on 2019-01-30
I tried PVP over a year ago once, and was overwhelmed by the OP builds people were using. I think they need to find a way to structure PVP. For example: The game “Star Trek: Legacy” had a solid PVP system. You were given a number of command points so that you would never see a Constitution duking it out with a sovereign or a defiant. I feel they should make class-battles and gear limitations, so for example a tier 2 ship battle, an engineer-only match, a non-fleet gear match, etc. Fleets do this kind of thing informally, but it would be nice to have a match setup screen where you could accomplish the same thing.
They could even make Normal, Advanced and Elite PVP queues with a DPS cap (5k, 15k, 50k), so any damage done beyond that point would be ignored. It would level the playing field for each tier of players.
I also agree with StarChaser that Conquest and objective game modes would be ideal, but I realize there is much more the dev’s have to do to make that happen.
Tony on 2015-09-02
Changes to PvP for Tribble Testing next week:
1) Slow the game speed down by 50%
2) All Rep/Set/Unique gear is illegal (i.e. gear with plain-jane modifiers only)
3) 10 second global cooldown on individual BOFFs and Captain’s powers (i.e. once a power has run its course or been terminated, there is a 10 second delay before that BOFF seat or Captain can activate a second power).
StarChaser on 2015-09-02
I started playing STO around the 2nd Anniversary and I played PvP quite often in PUGs, within my fleet, and expeditions into Kerrat. I feel that PvP has changed since then.
Before, in Klingon vs Federation, I have felt that the Klingon ships have a slight edge over Federation ships but it is an edge that can be overcome with good team work. Problem was that in PUGs, Federation players tend to do just whatever they want and the Klingons who had slightly better ships and far better team work would usually trounce the Federation players.
Now my PvP playtime has dropped. The PUG waits are long, so I avoid them. I make an occasional excursion into Kerrat. Most of my PvP playtime is in private matches with my fleet.
If PvP is to grow in STO, I think it will need to change. Arena mode I feel is obsolete. Even if we were to go back to Klingon vs Federation matches, both sides have access to cloak. I think it would have to be more like Capture and Hold map and the Assault map. I think PvP matches would need to have objectives beyond just achieve X many kills. It would need to be more like, Red Team must achieve goal A and Blue Team must achieve goal B and the map set so that goal A and B are conflicting goals.
Tony on 2019-01-30
Changes to PvP for Tribble Testing next week:
1) Slow the game speed down by 50%
2) All Rep/Set/Unique gear is illegal (i.e. gear with plain-jane modifiers only)
3) 10 second global cooldown on individual BOFFs and Captain’s powers (i.e. once a power has run its course or been terminated, there is a 10 second delay before that BOFF seat or Captain can activate a second power).
Eklinaar on 2015-09-02
I don’t PVP simply because I prefer cooperative gameplay over competitive gameplay. It’s unlikely that I’ll ever do much PVP no matter how much they develop it. This is an overall gaming preference for me. I played Dungeons and Dragons instead of Magic or Warhammer because it’s cooperative instead of competitive. I played LotRO instead of WoW because everyone’s on the same faction. Some gamers just aren’t PvPers.
StarChaser on 2019-01-30
I started playing STO around the 2nd Anniversary and I played PvP quite often in PUGs, within my fleet, and expeditions into Kerrat. I feel that PvP has changed since then.
Before, in Klingon vs Federation, I have felt that the Klingon ships have a slight edge over Federation ships but it is an edge that can be overcome with good team work. Problem was that in PUGs, Federation players tend to do just whatever they want and the Klingons who had slightly better ships and far better team work would usually trounce the Federation players.
Now my PvP playtime has dropped. The PUG waits are long, so I avoid them. I make an occasional excursion into Kerrat. Most of my PvP playtime is in private matches with my fleet.
If PvP is to grow in STO, I think it will need to change. Arena mode I feel is obsolete. Even if we were to go back to Klingon vs Federation matches, both sides have access to cloak. I think it would have to be more like Capture and Hold map and the Assault map. I think PvP matches would need to have objectives beyond just achieve X many kills. It would need to be more like, Red Team must achieve goal A and Blue Team must achieve goal B and the map set so that goal A and B are conflicting goals.
Evil forum and reddit user on 2015-09-02
No, it’s broken beyond belief!
Eklinaar on 2019-01-30
I don’t PVP simply because I prefer cooperative gameplay over competitive gameplay. It’s unlikely that I’ll ever do much PVP no matter how much they develop it. This is an overall gaming preference for me. I played Dungeons and Dragons instead of Magic or Warhammer because it’s cooperative instead of competitive. I played LotRO instead of WoW because everyone’s on the same faction. Some gamers just aren’t PvPers.
Evil forum and reddit user on 2019-01-30
No, it’s broken beyond belief!
sanokskyrat on 2015-09-01
Welcome back Mark!
Ummmm… but i don’t get the car, trucks reference (Or other jokes) with the Roddenberry guys. Maybe its because I am in Australia, i don’t know.
As for PVP, the rewards and dil are not good enough for me to care. I did before. I could do it all day when the events are not on. but the face i can spend a few hours PVPing then get no rewards compare to CCA or ISA. Its just not worth it.
sanokskyrat on 2019-01-30
Welcome back Mark!
Ummmm… but i don’t get the car, trucks reference (Or other jokes) with the Roddenberry guys. Maybe its because I am in Australia, i don’t know.
As for PVP, the rewards and dil are not good enough for me to care. I did before. I could do it all day when the events are not on. but the face i can spend a few hours PVPing then get no rewards compare to CCA or ISA. Its just not worth it.
Jonathan Towry on 2015-09-01
I don’t play PvP in the queues currently. But I would like to see some more of it in the Summer and Winter events. I like the hoverboard races in Risa. Maybe some sort of DDR type dance off would be cool. I wonder if the dev could pull off some sort of new PvP contests. 3D chess would be cool. What about shuttle racing. I know this sounds strange but maybe Q can host some sort of kart racing, that might be neat.
Jonathan Towry on 2019-01-30
I don’t play PvP in the queues currently. But I would like to see some more of it in the Summer and Winter events. I like the hoverboard races in Risa. Maybe some sort of DDR type dance off would be cool. I wonder if the dev could pull off some sort of new PvP contests. 3D chess would be cool. What about shuttle racing. I know this sounds strange but maybe Q can host some sort of kart racing, that might be neat.
seannewboy on 2015-09-01
Wonderful show everyone.
As for pvp, anything that gives some variety for one thing.
Hayden Jones on 2015-09-01
I’ve only played PvP once and that was a ground fight. I actually quite enjoyed the first half of the battle but it was taking too long to wrap up and I eventually just quit.
I’d be more likely to try some space PvP if they had a beginner mode. In my mind a beginner mode would be:
1) Two players.
2) Ships would have to be chosen from a pre-set list. The ships would be Tier 2 starships and would have all of their abilities fixed.
seannewboy on 2019-01-30
Wonderful show everyone.
As for pvp, anything that gives some variety for one thing.
Hayden Jones on 2019-01-30
I’ve only played PvP once and that was a ground fight. I actually quite enjoyed the first half of the battle but it was taking too long to wrap up and I eventually just quit.
I’d be more likely to try some space PvP if they had a beginner mode. In my mind a beginner mode would be:
1) Two players.
2) Ships would have to be chosen from a pre-set list. The ships would be Tier 2 starships and would have all of their abilities fixed.
Strelka on 2015-08-31
PVP question:
The long lists of balances that need to happen is probably well documented in the forums and redit, and agree with all the points in the “Working As Intended” article.
What I always thought was a specific third PvP faction based on the Maquis where Federation and Klingons toons could join a Maquis cell after reaching level 50(60?), being the result of the Fed/Kling alliance having redrawn the borders after the Iconian war, this gives a way for players to escape the Fed’vs’Klingon mind-sets and spreading out the Federation players more, but maybe even a potential for them to return to their original faction later.
And
As a “setback” for the PvP, make the maps one death, no respawn, your escape pod uses a Transwarp Coil to return back to the fleet starbase, where your ship will be returned after the battle, you have to wait until it is ready to go out again in, à la world of tanks, or chose another.
Cheers
Strelka – Ausmonauts
Marcase on 2015-08-31
Welcome back Mark !
I keep pushing for space pvp in my own fleet, as it’s a great way to let fleeties learn more about STO’s game-mechanics. We in the 44th are in the middle of a Tier 2 space pvp; you can have a lvl 60 character with mark XIV Epic kit but you have to fly a Tier 2 ship – good fun! Connies vs Bops vs Dhelans in good old ‘fangs out’ fights – the new captain traits are making this really interesting.
I agree wholeheartedly with Kenna and Jayce that PVE is a spike DPS grind while PvP has more options – so in PvP a sci can totally disable, drain and freeze an opponent and kill him by just pelting mk X space tribbles; that won’t be as effective against NPCs.
The difference between PVE and PVP geared builds is just too large for especially beginning players to easily overcome. Buying/grinding epic gear and presumably doing everything ‘right’ in PVE but then getting powned in PvP is just an enormous let-down.
Good interviews, good discussions, great show !
Strelka on 2019-01-30
PVP question:
The long lists of balances that need to happen is probably well documented in the forums and redit, and agree with all the points in the “Working As Intended” article.
What I always thought was a specific third PvP faction based on the Maquis where Federation and Klingons toons could join a Maquis cell after reaching level 50(60?), being the result of the Fed/Kling alliance having redrawn the borders after the Iconian war, this gives a way for players to escape the Fed’vs’Klingon mind-sets and spreading out the Federation players more, but maybe even a potential for them to return to their original faction later.
And
As a “setback” for the PvP, make the maps one death, no respawn, your escape pod uses a Transwarp Coil to return back to the fleet starbase, where your ship will be returned after the battle, you have to wait until it is ready to go out again in, à la world of tanks, or chose another.
Cheers
Strelka – Ausmonauts
Marcase on 2019-01-30
Welcome back Mark !
I keep pushing for space pvp in my own fleet, as it’s a great way to let fleeties learn more about STO’s game-mechanics. We in the 44th are in the middle of a Tier 2 space pvp; you can have a lvl 60 character with mark XIV Epic kit but you have to fly a Tier 2 ship – good fun! Connies vs Bops vs Dhelans in good old ‘fangs out’ fights – the new captain traits are making this really interesting.
I agree wholeheartedly with Kenna and Jayce that PVE is a spike DPS grind while PvP has more options – so in PvP a sci can totally disable, drain and freeze an opponent and kill him by just pelting mk X space tribbles; that won’t be as effective against NPCs.
The difference between PVE and PVP geared builds is just too large for especially beginning players to easily overcome. Buying/grinding epic gear and presumably doing everything ‘right’ in PVE but then getting powned in PvP is just an enormous let-down.
Good interviews, good discussions, great show !
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