Greetings, Captains! You’re listening to Episode 186 of Priority One Podcast, the premier Star Trek Online podcast! This episode was recorded on Thursday, August 14th, 2014 via TrekRadio.net and made available for download Monday, August 18th, 2014 at PriorityOnePodcast.com!
It’s another beautiful Monday, Captains, and Cookie, Jayce, and Elijah are here to bring you the latest happenings from the world of Star Trek and Star Trek Online. For starters, we Trek Out an interview with Garrett Wang from the convention floor at STLV’14 and discuss his involvement in Star Trek Online. In STONews, we have patch notes and some new intelligence reports about Delta Quadrant Species. We also talk about player “entitlement” — do forum posters go too far? Later, Professor Jayce calls Command School in session and educates players on the topic of “Power Creep” — What is it? How does it effect STO? In our Community Spotlight segment, Tommy Kraft gives us an update on his film project Star Trek Horizon. Finally, we open our Hailing Frequencies and hear what’s incoming from you.
Stay tuned to Priority One over the next few weeks as we bring you even more from our trip to the Star Trek Las Vegas convention 2014.
In case you missed it – you can catch the STODev Panel – in its entirety – during episode 184 of Priority One Podcast!
Topics Discussed
Command School
This week’s Community Question
Let us know YOUR thoughts by commenting below!
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Elio is a Northern New Jersey Cuban-American and graduate of Kean University, having earned his Bachelor of Arts in Theatre Performance in 2011. He has performed in internationally renowned performance halls such as Avery Fisher Hall with the New York Philharmonic, as a member of the Westminster Symphonic Choir, and in Beijing, China as a representative for Kean University. Since 2012, he has had the wonderful opportunity to Executive Produce Priority One – the premiere Star Trek Online podcast. Whether recruiting, managing the global team of talented volunteers, arranging interviews with special guests, editing, web-development, finding sponsors, managing crowd funding, or writing content for the podcast, Elio has a hand in it all. A long-time Trekkie, Elio has been watching the series since he was a child and sneaking in late night, back-to-back, episodes of TNG reruns. He finally embraced the Trekdom in college and spent many hours catching up on the entire multiverse…. instead of studying.
Greetings, Captains! You’re listening to Episode 185 of Priority One Podcast, the premier Star Trek Online podcast! This episode was recorded on Thursday, August 7th, 2014 via TrekRadio.net and made available […]
Sunseahl on 2014-08-21
In regards to the Community question many people have to remember that the “older mmo players” are also very hardcore Trek fans.
Sometimes the “entitlement” expressed on the forums isn’t just nay-saying or name calling sometimes it’s an intense, emotional, outburst from fans of Trek who will nitpick any sort of content to death because this event ret-cons this history, this item shouldn’t be usable at this time period, that ship has no real lore for why it exists and why we can fly it… or even just be fearing the grand unknown of continuing a story in which CBS may or may not say is canon down the road.
A lot of the caustic comments from the forums over season 8 were about “Dinosaurs, with freakin’ laser beams.” Why? because players new and old were, at that point, still trying to wrap their head around the Voth being our enemy without having any taste of the story… but that quickly died once the season hit and people were able to immerse themselves in that content.
These people love Star Trek with such a passion it’s almost blinding when something new comes and changes it in some way they. They can’t help but feel offended and sometimes it takes a gentle assurance and a bit more information to ease their concerns.
This is also why push back is also necessary to game development. Remember the early beta of STO? Players biggest criticism early on was that the “new” ESD was kind of small and crappy and that they wanted the iconic “mushroom.”
There’s always going to be a subtle balance between devs ans players When a franchise we love is filled with Players who post passionate criticism, devs who implement those changes, Devs who aren’t feeling well that day and just ignore the concern all together because a player used a little too much italics for a dev’s taste, and just flat out rebuking the worst of players who post that everything “should be free.”
I mean, really… Where does that last group of people think they live in, Federation space? 😛
Sacca Gavesaka on 2014-08-21
In response to the community question, STO is my first MMO, so I do not have a depth of experience on which to draw. However, I do visit the STO forums at least a few times weekly and it does seem to me that they are overrun with comments laced with vitriol, negative opinions, and down-right nastiness at times. I share Ms. Cookie’s hesitancy to post in fear of retribution.
The question is, why? My opinion – I think we all forget (myself included) that PWE/Cryptic is a business and that ultimately STO needs to be profitable to survive. The Devs have to make decisions that are going to keep the game interesting to the greatest number of folks who play it, and pay for it by buying zen, and subscriptions. Unfortunately, some of those decisions don’t always chime well with certain segments of the player-base. We all have to remember…it’s business, it’s not personal.
I want to go on record as saying, I really love this game! (and probably spend way too much time and money on it). The Devs I met at STLV seemed genuinely interested in hearing and incorporating constructive ideas offered by the players present. What more can we ask?
Thanks Priority One for being the NPR/Fox News (you pick) of STO. It may only be a game, but you guys keep it real!
Sacca Gavesaka
Sunseahl on 2019-01-30
In regards to the Community question many people have to remember that the “older mmo players” are also very hardcore Trek fans.
Sometimes the “entitlement” expressed on the forums isn’t just nay-saying or name calling sometimes it’s an intense, emotional, outburst from fans of Trek who will nitpick any sort of content to death because this event ret-cons this history, this item shouldn’t be usable at this time period, that ship has no real lore for why it exists and why we can fly it… or even just be fearing the grand unknown of continuing a story in which CBS may or may not say is canon down the road.
A lot of the caustic comments from the forums over season 8 were about “Dinosaurs, with freakin’ laser beams.” Why? because players new and old were, at that point, still trying to wrap their head around the Voth being our enemy without having any taste of the story… but that quickly died once the season hit and people were able to immerse themselves in that content.
These people love Star Trek with such a passion it’s almost blinding when something new comes and changes it in some way they. They can’t help but feel offended and sometimes it takes a gentle assurance and a bit more information to ease their concerns.
This is also why push back is also necessary to game development. Remember the early beta of STO? Players biggest criticism early on was that the “new” ESD was kind of small and crappy and that they wanted the iconic “mushroom.”
There’s always going to be a subtle balance between devs ans players When a franchise we love is filled with Players who post passionate criticism, devs who implement those changes, Devs who aren’t feeling well that day and just ignore the concern all together because a player used a little too much italics for a dev’s taste, and just flat out rebuking the worst of players who post that everything “should be free.”
I mean, really… Where does that last group of people think they live in, Federation space? 😛
Sacca Gavesaka on 2019-01-30
In response to the community question, STO is my first MMO, so I do not have a depth of experience on which to draw. However, I do visit the STO forums at least a few times weekly and it does seem to me that they are overrun with comments laced with vitriol, negative opinions, and down-right nastiness at times. I share Ms. Cookie’s hesitancy to post in fear of retribution.
The question is, why? My opinion – I think we all forget (myself included) that PWE/Cryptic is a business and that ultimately STO needs to be profitable to survive. The Devs have to make decisions that are going to keep the game interesting to the greatest number of folks who play it, and pay for it by buying zen, and subscriptions. Unfortunately, some of those decisions don’t always chime well with certain segments of the player-base. We all have to remember…it’s business, it’s not personal.
I want to go on record as saying, I really love this game! (and probably spend way too much time and money on it). The Devs I met at STLV seemed genuinely interested in hearing and incorporating constructive ideas offered by the players present. What more can we ask?
Thanks Priority One for being the NPR/Fox News (you pick) of STO. It may only be a game, but you guys keep it real!
Sacca Gavesaka
Berthulf on 2014-08-20
P.S. TVTropes… damn!
Berthulf on 2014-08-20
Hi guys, I haven’t said it yet, but I’m loving the new sound.
Community Question:
Trolling is a bit pathetic at the best of times, but the rage storms that are generated by STO players are damn annoying. They are, still, a minority. Often, I find that poisonous, abusive or unhelpful posts are made by the same very few accounts. The world is full of (as Elijah said) ‘Ill Spirited’ individuals, and forums always draw these people in. How to deal? Ignore them and move on. Eventually, the trolls get bored and change topic.
To be fair, I rarely hit the forums. I did, all the way up to the end of beta, but since then have barely visited. That is to say, I do not avoid them, I simply don’t visit them very often; I have no need to. When I do, I will try to be constructive, non-judgmental and open to criticism whilst ignoring and attempting to avoid the obvious trolls. This is not an easy task and it is easy for the more caustic trolls to draw people into their arguments, but doing so only validates them.
Are players entitled? No, they’re often bitter or unhappy and wish to make others unhappy in order to feel better themselves; misery loves company after all. It is our paying attention to rants that makes players feel they are entitled to a rant.
Notes:
Anybody hoarding mark boxes is playing the game system, not playing the game. I have a suspicion that you guys feel as I do, that those people complaining mark boxes open automatically again can just get over themselves.
Lots of story coming? I hope so, I’m hoping for three or four missions per rank, minimum. If the new content does one-up themselves again, then great, but if not? If it’s even half the quality of LoR I’ll be happy. Hell, most of my toons (and I have 10 now) haven’t completed the existing story lines, but I’ve suddenly found a new enthusiasm for playing them.
I’ve always thought that an ability tracker would be cool, and it would certainly give Science and Engineering focus officers and ships more visibility in missions.
I completely agree with Elijah about the new Tier 6 vessels. I personally think it is the cellphone reference in its entirety. New-Hotness vs Old-and-Busted. I also think that Jayce is right about there being an upgrade mechanic, i’m just intrigued as to what Cryptic will do! That said, I’m sure that my trusty Sovereign, Luna and Ambassador will weather whatever gets thrown at them. My B’Rel may not survive (poor busted old boy, he breaks down at the mention of Borg) but the rest of my ships will!
Anyway, looking forward to next week and downloading yet another of your awesome Podcasts.
Berthulf on 2019-01-30
P.S. TVTropes… damn!
Berthulf on 2019-01-30
Hi guys, I haven’t said it yet, but I’m loving the new sound.
Community Question:
Trolling is a bit pathetic at the best of times, but the rage storms that are generated by STO players are damn annoying. They are, still, a minority. Often, I find that poisonous, abusive or unhelpful posts are made by the same very few accounts. The world is full of (as Elijah said) ‘Ill Spirited’ individuals, and forums always draw these people in. How to deal? Ignore them and move on. Eventually, the trolls get bored and change topic.
To be fair, I rarely hit the forums. I did, all the way up to the end of beta, but since then have barely visited. That is to say, I do not avoid them, I simply don’t visit them very often; I have no need to. When I do, I will try to be constructive, non-judgmental and open to criticism whilst ignoring and attempting to avoid the obvious trolls. This is not an easy task and it is easy for the more caustic trolls to draw people into their arguments, but doing so only validates them.
Are players entitled? No, they’re often bitter or unhappy and wish to make others unhappy in order to feel better themselves; misery loves company after all. It is our paying attention to rants that makes players feel they are entitled to a rant.
Notes:
Anybody hoarding mark boxes is playing the game system, not playing the game. I have a suspicion that you guys feel as I do, that those people complaining mark boxes open automatically again can just get over themselves.
Lots of story coming? I hope so, I’m hoping for three or four missions per rank, minimum. If the new content does one-up themselves again, then great, but if not? If it’s even half the quality of LoR I’ll be happy. Hell, most of my toons (and I have 10 now) haven’t completed the existing story lines, but I’ve suddenly found a new enthusiasm for playing them.
I’ve always thought that an ability tracker would be cool, and it would certainly give Science and Engineering focus officers and ships more visibility in missions.
I completely agree with Elijah about the new Tier 6 vessels. I personally think it is the cellphone reference in its entirety. New-Hotness vs Old-and-Busted. I also think that Jayce is right about there being an upgrade mechanic, i’m just intrigued as to what Cryptic will do! That said, I’m sure that my trusty Sovereign, Luna and Ambassador will weather whatever gets thrown at them. My B’Rel may not survive (poor busted old boy, he breaks down at the mention of Borg) but the rest of my ships will!
Anyway, looking forward to next week and downloading yet another of your awesome Podcasts.
mjaybird on 2014-08-19
I like your questionnaire you are doing to get more positive feedback into STO. I find it funny people go to the forums and say what they want to thinking they will fix a bug or listen to them. Loved the episode and looking forward to Delta Rising and what level 60 brings
Keeny1975 on 2014-08-19
I think the questionnaire your doing is a great idea and I’ll be filling it out in a bit.
I can’t wait for season 10. I buy the ships and lock boxes.so I can get the max out of the game. It’s a hobby for me because it’s something I enjoy building on and spending my money on.
As for the forums it’s like the scary lower decks of old earth space dock. I used to go in to the forms with new ideas or just to express my love for the game but got bruttely shot down every time so now I just don’t bother.
Also a tip that many don’t seem to know about (I didn’t until a friend told me) if you go mining use the arrow keys on your keyboard. It’s a lot easier because your response time is faster.
mjaybird on 2019-01-30
I like your questionnaire you are doing to get more positive feedback into STO. I find it funny people go to the forums and say what they want to thinking they will fix a bug or listen to them. Loved the episode and looking forward to Delta Rising and what level 60 brings
Keeny1975 on 2019-01-30
I think the questionnaire your doing is a great idea and I’ll be filling it out in a bit.
I can’t wait for season 10. I buy the ships and lock boxes.so I can get the max out of the game. It’s a hobby for me because it’s something I enjoy building on and spending my money on.
As for the forums it’s like the scary lower decks of old earth space dock. I used to go in to the forms with new ideas or just to express my love for the game but got bruttely shot down every time so now I just don’t bother.
Also a tip that many don’t seem to know about (I didn’t until a friend told me) if you go mining use the arrow keys on your keyboard. It’s a lot easier because your response time is faster.
seannewboy on 2014-08-19
Loved the episode everyone.
CQ) Yes, No, and Some. All game forums are filled with trolls and the entitled, it is just the way of the modern internet. Even outside games, this is the way of things. I still wade in all the way just about everyday into the STO forums. I never had the same connection to the SWTOR forums, nor did i stay long in the Planetside 2 forums, im guessing that in both cases its due to the lack of interest i have to those games compared to STO. I also feel that although the Dev interaction waxes and wanes in STO, there is still more true communication from the STO devs over time. Now in PS2’s defense, during development the devs are much more involved in the forums, but that slows down after the game goes gold.
Bazag on 2014-08-19
TimTams!!!!!
You guys can call me the TimTam Nazi.
NO TIMTAMS FOR YOU!
Or maybe we (me and woody) can both bring some 2016 since I’m not currently planing for 2015.
Also, I just realised that we already have some ‘Quarter’ style missions in STO. Romulan Zoo by Commodore Bob and a number by NemesisChiken.
seannewboy on 2019-01-30
Loved the episode everyone.
CQ) Yes, No, and Some. All game forums are filled with trolls and the entitled, it is just the way of the modern internet. Even outside games, this is the way of things. I still wade in all the way just about everyday into the STO forums. I never had the same connection to the SWTOR forums, nor did i stay long in the Planetside 2 forums, im guessing that in both cases its due to the lack of interest i have to those games compared to STO. I also feel that although the Dev interaction waxes and wanes in STO, there is still more true communication from the STO devs over time. Now in PS2’s defense, during development the devs are much more involved in the forums, but that slows down after the game goes gold.
Bazag on 2019-01-30
TimTams!!!!!
You guys can call me the TimTam Nazi.
NO TIMTAMS FOR YOU!
Or maybe we (me and woody) can both bring some 2016 since I’m not currently planing for 2015.
Also, I just realised that we already have some ‘Quarter’ style missions in STO. Romulan Zoo by Commodore Bob and a number by NemesisChiken.
Dafydd68 on 2014-08-18
I can honestly say I rarely go onto the STO forums, unless there is something I am specifically looking for, information-wise. I certainly would never post an opinion on the forum. It seems that there are too many people who enjoy arguing for arguments sake (which is their right, of course) and I always feel I am here to enjoy a game, not get wound up by people insulting others.
Woody_Valley on 2014-08-18
With the forums I wouldn’t go by the word ‘entitled’, rather I’m more looking at ‘WIT.F.M.’ or what’s in it for me.
With also the coming expansion, a lot of the player base would be also aroused due to the fact we are going into undiscovered country. Just think of some of the characters including Kirk acted in ST6 with the change. It is always like that every expansion that comes out.
Well as for ‘elitist’ you always going to have that sort of group in the mmo world, creating a sense of being on top. I see it in all aspects of STO too, even in the Foundry. It is the sort of thing that makes money for the developer.
If all goes well and I make it to Vegas in 2016. I bring over a distant relative to Cookie Cupcakes, on her father’s side, who now lives in Australia, the Tim Tam to introduce you guys to it.
Good Show Guys!!
Adam La Juene on 2014-08-18
Jayce PERFECTLY verbalized my fondness for my Fleet ships. He’s a sorcerer, that one! He reads the thoughts in my brain!
As for the forums lately Lock Box Grand Prize Ship owners seem to feel entitled to a free Tier Six upgrade simply because they wasted copious quantities of money on them.
Dan Kochheiser on 2014-08-18
I don’t think that STO Fomrum goers act any more elitest than any other MMO forum. I don’t stay away from the forums. I post as sisteric on the forums, and speak my mind as things arise. What I really think has fueled the recent trend of postings has more to do with the Dev’s not really giving people information than any Elitist feelings of the posting community.
I consider myself amoungst the posting community actually. And I am very frustrated over the lack of commentary from the STO development team. I hate comparing WOW to STO all the time, but it’s the game I play as often as I do STO, and far longer. WOW’s devs and CM’s regularly communicate with people o the forums and twitter. They also constantly provide information and give regular updates on the changes they are making BEFORE they are released. I have come to expect that level of information dessimination from dev’s. It frustrates me that I am not getting regular and consistant updates from the Dev’s and that there is not regular interactive communications from the expansion team as a whole to keep us informed, and hyped, for Delta Rising.
And Elijah, I agree with you about the T6 ships thing. For the game to have progression, you have to have things go obsolete. T4 ships are comparable to T5 ships. And I have flown T4 ships in PVP verus T5 and T5.5 ships and maintained a certain level of effectiveness. But is was far easier to do it in my own T5 ship. I think the same shoul;d be expected every time they make a new Tier of ships.
Marcase on 2014-08-18
I only ever visit the STO forum for the Dev’s comments or official msgs like patch notes. Thankfully, my fleet has its own active forum where we can discuss and argue in a constructive way – the trolling and hate for hate’s sake that’s all to often ‘a given’ with public forums is just a waste of my time.
I really feel for the STO Devs, because the open hostility is often misguided or just plain wrong.
I’m often concerned that it will turn the Devs in the hated creatures that many forum trolls make them out to be, because you get tired and then frustrated by all the nonsense that’s often spewed on public forums in general (so not just STO) and when you try to educate the trolls it will only backfire.
Lose/lose get’s old real fast.
Thx P1 for the STLV coverage, for us Europeans it’s a great way to get first hand experience!
Dafydd68 on 2019-01-30
I can honestly say I rarely go onto the STO forums, unless there is something I am specifically looking for, information-wise. I certainly would never post an opinion on the forum. It seems that there are too many people who enjoy arguing for arguments sake (which is their right, of course) and I always feel I am here to enjoy a game, not get wound up by people insulting others.
QuePan on 2014-08-18
I Still want that Elijah Entertainer DOFF 🙂
Cookiecupcakes on 2014-08-18
Me too QuePan, me too…
Dfydd68 on 2014-08-18
…is there a doff mission for cleaning the restrooms?
Woody_Valley on 2019-01-30
With the forums I wouldn’t go by the word ‘entitled’, rather I’m more looking at ‘WIT.F.M.’ or what’s in it for me.
With also the coming expansion, a lot of the player base would be also aroused due to the fact we are going into undiscovered country. Just think of some of the characters including Kirk acted in ST6 with the change. It is always like that every expansion that comes out.
Well as for ‘elitist’ you always going to have that sort of group in the mmo world, creating a sense of being on top. I see it in all aspects of STO too, even in the Foundry. It is the sort of thing that makes money for the developer.
If all goes well and I make it to Vegas in 2016. I bring over a distant relative to Cookie Cupcakes, on her father’s side, who now lives in Australia, the Tim Tam to introduce you guys to it.
Good Show Guys!!
Adam La Juene on 2019-01-30
Jayce PERFECTLY verbalized my fondness for my Fleet ships. He’s a sorcerer, that one! He reads the thoughts in my brain!
As for the forums lately Lock Box Grand Prize Ship owners seem to feel entitled to a free Tier Six upgrade simply because they wasted copious quantities of money on them.
Dan Kochheiser on 2019-01-30
I don’t think that STO Fomrum goers act any more elitest than any other MMO forum. I don’t stay away from the forums. I post as sisteric on the forums, and speak my mind as things arise. What I really think has fueled the recent trend of postings has more to do with the Dev’s not really giving people information than any Elitist feelings of the posting community.
I consider myself amoungst the posting community actually. And I am very frustrated over the lack of commentary from the STO development team. I hate comparing WOW to STO all the time, but it’s the game I play as often as I do STO, and far longer. WOW’s devs and CM’s regularly communicate with people o the forums and twitter. They also constantly provide information and give regular updates on the changes they are making BEFORE they are released. I have come to expect that level of information dessimination from dev’s. It frustrates me that I am not getting regular and consistant updates from the Dev’s and that there is not regular interactive communications from the expansion team as a whole to keep us informed, and hyped, for Delta Rising.
And Elijah, I agree with you about the T6 ships thing. For the game to have progression, you have to have things go obsolete. T4 ships are comparable to T5 ships. And I have flown T4 ships in PVP verus T5 and T5.5 ships and maintained a certain level of effectiveness. But is was far easier to do it in my own T5 ship. I think the same shoul;d be expected every time they make a new Tier of ships.
Marcase on 2019-01-30
I only ever visit the STO forum for the Dev’s comments or official msgs like patch notes. Thankfully, my fleet has its own active forum where we can discuss and argue in a constructive way – the trolling and hate for hate’s sake that’s all to often ‘a given’ with public forums is just a waste of my time.
I really feel for the STO Devs, because the open hostility is often misguided or just plain wrong.
I’m often concerned that it will turn the Devs in the hated creatures that many forum trolls make them out to be, because you get tired and then frustrated by all the nonsense that’s often spewed on public forums in general (so not just STO) and when you try to educate the trolls it will only backfire.
Lose/lose get’s old real fast.
Thx P1 for the STLV coverage, for us Europeans it’s a great way to get first hand experience!
Canis Black on 2014-08-18
TBH the only dedicated MMO forums that I have any experience with are the ones for Cryptic’s games – STO much more so than either Neverwinter of Champions – and between that experience and having been assured that STO’s forums are quite tame compared to those for other games I’m…well I’m quite fond of not raging at the computer screen.
In point of fact the STO forums almost drove me from the game shortly after I discovered them. Thankfully I’d invested SOME money at the time and was determined to at least get a couple weeks more use out of that money so I stuck it out. I’ve ended up not regretting sticking around, but when the forums are bad enough to drive away new players from the game then there’s a problem.
Oh, have I mentioned that my periodic visits back have indicated that the place isn’t any better now than it was then?
Dracula on 2014-08-18
The STO forums are hell on Earth thanks to the dev’s lack of communication. If all the devs were as good communicating as tacofangs, things wouldn’t be as bad as they are now.
Canis Black on 2014-08-18
I’m gonna have to disagree. I’ve seen it when the forums had more Dev interaction and the only change was that the hate-fire involved more “Devs are lying liars that lie,” than we currently have.
There was absolutely no difference in the level of vitriol being spewed.
QuePan on 2019-01-30
I Still want that Elijah Entertainer DOFF 🙂
Cookiecupcakes on 2019-01-30
Me too QuePan, me too…
Dfydd68 on 2019-01-30
…is there a doff mission for cleaning the restrooms?
The_Grand_Nagus on 2014-08-18
Lots of people act “more entitled than they should”, and forums have nothing to do with that(watch the news much?). Singling out the STO forums as if they are worse than people in general or other MMO forums is misleading at best, and closer to just being dishonest.
The_Grand_Nagus on 2014-08-18
And just to clarify, I dont mean that P1 is saying the STO forums are worse than others, but I have seen people say that many times over the last 4 years. Maybe its just exaggeration, or maybe its just being dishonest to support their argument, but either way its simply not true.
Elijah on 2014-08-18
UGH! Nagus!! You’ve got me on the defensive!! 😛
Elijah on 2014-08-18
Yes — I singled out the STO Forums because that’s our home. You point out if I watch the news much — not only do I watch the news, but I’ve also been on the receiving end of people who thrive off reacting negatively (did you not listen to my retail experience?). I didn’t accuse the STOForums of being “worse than people in general or other MMO forums” — I made statements based on my observations and experiences. I never said, “well, compared to the Champion’s Forums — STO’s forums are hell on earth” — I said, STO has a large populous of “new gamers” that may not be aware that things like forums exist — and that can create an uneven balance on forum interaction. How is that misleading and/or dishonest?
I ALSO pointed out that — when things get out of hand, community members WILL defend the inherent “code of conduct” — like that one poster who compared Cryptic to ISIS. Again, how is that misleading or dishonest?
The_Grand_Nagus on 2014-08-18
Not sure if you saw my clarification before your reply, but I did not mean that P1(you guys) are saying that STO is worse than other MMO forums, but some people DO say that and those people are either unaware or dishonest. The community question made me want to reply to that misconception, but I didnt mean that you guys were promoting it. Sorry if it came across that way… and I wish we could just edit our posts rather than have to make a second post to clarify =P
Elijah on 2014-08-18
Na — no need to edit! I like the dialogue! Your follow-up comment came through just as I had finished posting my winded reply 😉 — But, I did see your Reddit post about it first, too — so I was ready with my rebuttal!
The_Grand_Nagus on 2014-08-18
That said(and not that my preference matters), but I would have preferred if the community question simply used the term “MMO” instead of “STO” and read like this:
“Do MMO forum members act more ‘entitled’ than they should? Do you stray away from the forums? Are members “elitist”?”
The reason I would have preferred that is because then it wouldnt give any appearance that it was being suggested that the people on the STO forums act worse than elsewhere.
But again, I dont think that was the intent or meaning; just a possible unintended way some people may read that question =)
The_Grand_Nagus on 2014-08-18
After a little further reflection, it seems like this week’s community question is kind of pointless, since the answer is obvious. Of course MMO forums(STO’s included) have a lot of negativity and non constructive posts. Whether you want to call it self-entitlement, trolling, or something else doesnt really matter. And of course that kind of behavior drives a lot of people away. I dont think anybody really denies those things. So why ask a question if the answer is blatantly obvious? That serves no real purpose. A more useful question would be what, if anything, can be done to change the situation?
Elijah on 2014-08-18
It inspired discussion didn’t? — So the Community Question did it’s job. Also… What — if anything — could be done? — http://priorityonepodcast.com/gameideas/ — Nagus, do you listen to our show?! 😛
The_Grand_Nagus on 2014-08-18
Show? What show? =P
Canis Black on 2019-01-30
TBH the only dedicated MMO forums that I have any experience with are the ones for Cryptic’s games – STO much more so than either Neverwinter of Champions – and between that experience and having been assured that STO’s forums are quite tame compared to those for other games I’m…well I’m quite fond of not raging at the computer screen.
In point of fact the STO forums almost drove me from the game shortly after I discovered them. Thankfully I’d invested SOME money at the time and was determined to at least get a couple weeks more use out of that money so I stuck it out. I’ve ended up not regretting sticking around, but when the forums are bad enough to drive away new players from the game then there’s a problem.
Oh, have I mentioned that my periodic visits back have indicated that the place isn’t any better now than it was then?
Dracula on 2019-01-30
The STO forums are hell on Earth thanks to the dev’s lack of communication. If all the devs were as good communicating as tacofangs, things wouldn’t be as bad as they are now.
Canis Black on 2019-01-30
I’m gonna have to disagree. I’ve seen it when the forums had more Dev interaction and the only change was that the hate-fire involved more “Devs are lying liars that lie,” than we currently have.
There was absolutely no difference in the level of vitriol being spewed.
The_Grand_Nagus on 2019-01-30
Lots of people act “more entitled than they should”, and forums have nothing to do with that(watch the news much?). Singling out the STO forums as if they are worse than people in general or other MMO forums is misleading at best, and closer to just being dishonest.
The_Grand_Nagus on 2019-01-30
And just to clarify, I dont mean that P1 is saying the STO forums are worse than others, but I have seen people say that many times over the last 4 years. Maybe its just exaggeration, or maybe its just being dishonest to support their argument, but either way its simply not true.
Elijah on 2019-01-30
UGH! Nagus!! You’ve got me on the defensive!! 😛
Elijah on 2019-01-30
Yes — I singled out the STO Forums because that’s our home. You point out if I watch the news much — not only do I watch the news, but I’ve also been on the receiving end of people who thrive off reacting negatively (did you not listen to my retail experience?). I didn’t accuse the STOForums of being “worse than people in general or other MMO forums” — I made statements based on my observations and experiences. I never said, “well, compared to the Champion’s Forums — STO’s forums are hell on earth” — I said, STO has a large populous of “new gamers” that may not be aware that things like forums exist — and that can create an uneven balance on forum interaction. How is that misleading and/or dishonest?
I ALSO pointed out that — when things get out of hand, community members WILL defend the inherent “code of conduct” — like that one poster who compared Cryptic to ISIS. Again, how is that misleading or dishonest?
The_Grand_Nagus on 2019-01-30
Not sure if you saw my clarification before your reply, but I did not mean that P1(you guys) are saying that STO is worse than other MMO forums, but some people DO say that and those people are either unaware or dishonest. The community question made me want to reply to that misconception, but I didnt mean that you guys were promoting it. Sorry if it came across that way… and I wish we could just edit our posts rather than have to make a second post to clarify =P
Elijah on 2019-01-30
Na — no need to edit! I like the dialogue! Your follow-up comment came through just as I had finished posting my winded reply 😉 — But, I did see your Reddit post about it first, too — so I was ready with my rebuttal!
The_Grand_Nagus on 2019-01-30
That said(and not that my preference matters), but I would have preferred if the community question simply used the term “MMO” instead of “STO” and read like this:
“Do MMO forum members act more ‘entitled’ than they should? Do you stray away from the forums? Are members “elitist”?”
The reason I would have preferred that is because then it wouldnt give any appearance that it was being suggested that the people on the STO forums act worse than elsewhere.
But again, I dont think that was the intent or meaning; just a possible unintended way some people may read that question =)
The_Grand_Nagus on 2019-01-30
After a little further reflection, it seems like this week’s community question is kind of pointless, since the answer is obvious. Of course MMO forums(STO’s included) have a lot of negativity and non constructive posts. Whether you want to call it self-entitlement, trolling, or something else doesnt really matter. And of course that kind of behavior drives a lot of people away. I dont think anybody really denies those things. So why ask a question if the answer is blatantly obvious? That serves no real purpose. A more useful question would be what, if anything, can be done to change the situation?
Elijah on 2019-01-30
It inspired discussion didn’t? — So the Community Question did it’s job. Also… What — if anything — could be done? — http://priorityonepodcast.com/gameideas/ — Nagus, do you listen to our show?! 😛
The_Grand_Nagus on 2019-01-30
Show? What show? =P
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